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Smooth shading 15mag VS 7mag

How do you best shade big areas that need to be smooth?

like the top of skulls, or a sphere or something.

I've had better luck with a 7mag than with a 15mag, anyone else had this experience? or am I not doing it right with the 15 mag?


Replies:

RE:Smooth shading 15mag VS 7mag

i hope someone responds to your topic i have been wondering the exact same thing bigger mags seem to take so many passes i have'nt had good experiences with them i prefer 9s good luck.
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RE:Smooth shading 15mag VS 7mag

hardd to answer there really is no best size mag. watever works for u man and if ur gettin a smooth shade ur happy with using a 7 mag dont trip on the 15 stick with what u no. if ur loookin for advice on how to use a larger mag. id say try a touch more needle float, possibly a touch more volt and most definitly need to apply more pressure to sink that amout of needles in. it may feel kinda brutal to dig em in but needs to be done. with a 7 or 9 i can barely touch the skin and saturate an area not the case with a larger mag, try more pressure, and if that doesnt work just stick with what u no..
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RE:Smooth shading 15mag VS 7mag

no one says you have to go all the way up to a 15 mag, try an 11m or a 13m. even a 9m can cover a lot of skin when sinking in color.
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RE:Smooth shading 15mag VS 7mag

dude from santa rosa is good people he answered my question about bigger mags and the slower saturation of ink. i have shop ink but in my opinon the best and most talented freehand work i have on me is my sleeves from prison they where done with a single lighter spring and dude worked quick and created very powdery shades so i look back on that and my experience with larger needle groupings and try to stay away from the trend of massive needles.
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RE:Smooth shading 15mag VS 7mag

agreed on that i dont have any shop work on me all my work i got in prison and believe it or not with an experienced prison slinger the single needle seems to go much faster than bigger mags. i dont use single needle and only use mags now because to get any where in this business and not only tattoo a prison style work its a must to use mags, curved mag,,, to get that main stream saturated work. my bread and butter is prison style work that is left powdery to peppery usually only do it upon request on B and G. Also when tattoo on females that peppery work isnt the business gotta make beautiful clean work on girls and mags are a must for that, id say use at least a 9 and get comforatble with it. TBH there is no differenc in working a 7,9,13,23, once u turn it on the side no matter how many needles ull only be using 2 or three. ull learn to use it at different angles so ur not using all the needles.. hope that made sene
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RE:Smooth shading 15mag VS 7mag

agreed on that i dont have any shop work on me all my work i got in prison and believe it or not with an experienced prison slinger the single needle seems to go much faster than bigger mags. i dont use single needle and only use mags now because to get any where in this business and not only tattoo a prison style work its a must to use mags, curved mag,,, to get that main stream saturated work. my bread and butter is prison style work that is left powdery to peppery usually only do it upon request on B and G. Also when tattoo on females that peppery work isnt the business gotta make beautiful clean work on girls and mags are a must for that, id say use at least a 9 and get comforatble with it. TBH there is no differenc in working a 7,9,13,23, once u turn it on the side no matter how many needles ull only be using 2 or three. ull learn to use it at different angles so ur not using all the needles.. hope that made sene
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RE:Smooth shading 15mag VS 7mag

.
Hey boing,

The biggest obstacle you will encounter with using larger mags are surface resistance to needle grouping.
Think about the people you see laying down on a bed of nails and not getting hurt. The reason is the that the grouping of nails are close enough together to allow for weight distribution to the skins puncture rate, however put only 6 or so nails on the bed and surly the person will impale themselves.
The same principle applies to using larger mags. Because the needles are in a larger grouping, it will take more force to allow the needles to penetrate the skin, the same as a 7 mag. especially on areas like the ribs with stretchy skin, more often than not you will get more needle bouncing off the skin than you would prefer and in some cases you may accidentally overwork the skin.
To overcome this you will need to use more of a scrubbing back and forth motion to allow for better saturation combined with a good 4 point stretch to the skin. The scrubbing causes less trauma to the skin than circular motion and allow for more passes, especially if you are using bugpin needles. and the stretching will decrease the needle bounce off the skin. once you have your base tones in you can then soften them out by switching to surface shading.

Just another tip though to keep in mind with doing smooth blending when you need to apply a more aggressive stretch to the skin due to using a larger mag. Areas like you would with the stomach or ribs.
You know when you blow up a balloon that has writing on it, you will notice 2 things. 1. the letters stretch and become bigger, and 2. the letters become lighter as the balloon continues to stretch. you need to keep this same principle in mind when you are using large mags on stretchy areas. The reason is, if you put in a grey tone that is say 40% grey in and area that requires excessive stretching, then when you let the skin go back to its original state, the needle marks are now going to be closer together, and when they are closer together they will give the appearance of being darker and thus your 40% tone will now look like a 50%... This can really give you a lot of trouble when you are trying to do a large fade from one area to the next..... so keep this in mind, because in some area that you think may need a specific shade, you made need to go one shade lighter to compensate for your stretching.. Make sense?

Hope that helps bro. Take care.


Stephen Stacey
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RE:Smooth shading 15mag VS 7mag

well said ^^ i should add i only uses rotaries and when i try and get smooth b and g i almost never stretch when using a no give rotary. the no stretch in affect will create the give. on areas like calfs or even forearms ill go as far as kinda doing a reverse 4 point stretch pushing the skin together to get a smooth blend.. also for my dark areas i will do circles but when i want to blend it out then scrub. there really is no set way just try many different techniques and see what works for u. imagine if u will if ur right handed, tattooing with your right hand place it on the skin with your left place it on skin and push toward your right hand just a bit so the skin isnt tight.. dont no if technique will work with coils but with nogive rotaries it works great..
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RE:Smooth shading 15mag VS 7mag

thanks Stephen. That helped alot :)
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RE:Smooth shading 15mag VS 7mag

i use rotaries also sum with no give and ive never heard of anyone using a no stretch method whether working with rotaries or coils???? im my experience there is no way i could ever get proper penetration or consistent shading without stretching.
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RE:Smooth shading 15mag VS 7mag

damn really your missing out.. there is a forum called the rotary tattoo forum u should join, and u will learn of a lot of techniques avid rotary users are using.. :) also i only use this technique when blending or trying to achieve a super smooth light grey wash. i really only do a full on stretch when trying to saturated an area with one pass. many rotary users a finding ways so simulate give with penetration depth, stretch, and hit of machine. along with different hand motions,, scrub, whip , circle,
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RE:Smooth shading 15mag VS 7mag

and of course ill stretch when i shade. i was just on this thread where the builder of the Halo was talking about using the natural stretch of the skin technique. u should check it out man

** also will add this is only for areas that are extremely tight and rely on that for my stretch.. forearms, calves, top of shoulders. if im working on the rib area or stomach then of course ill strecth this technique is for certain areas :)
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RE:Smooth shading 15mag VS 7mag

** diregard that first line on above post it meant to say of course ill stretch when Im lining
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RE:Smooth shading 15mag VS 7mag

I prefer using smaller configurations for smooth shading, if you like 7 mags try a 9 curved magnum. Using the curve at the right angle can get some really nice smooth blends by going really light and making a couple quick passes, and the smaller needles are a little more forgiving on the skin so as not to overwork it. I noticed a huge difference in my shading from switching to curved bugpin magnums.

As for the no stretch method, I use rotaries right now and I've been doing this a while without even thinking about it. Using a 9 curved bugpin (I love these) and going featherweight with your machine hitting hard (with no "give") can give a good start to a smooth blend and then stretch it tight to saturate it as much as needed so there's no light spots. Hope this is helpful!
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RE:Smooth shading 15mag VS 7mag

ill have to try this out i guess. i usually use bugpins and for soft shades ill go with the scrubbing motion but never have not stretched. my work comes out pretty good using what i know if u would like to c it then let me know and ill give u a link. im deffinately gonna try it out though seems interesting
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RE:Smooth shading 15mag VS 7mag

all good man and id bet ur work is much better than mine. I learned in prison and have only have been in shop for a short time; however, im always trying new techniques to improve and spend alot of time on that forum.lol..give it a go no guarantee itll work for u but it does work for some. u should check out the rotary forum.com man all kinds of info, more than this forum by far, only professional artists are on it and share their techniques its great man and highly addictive..
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RE:Smooth shading 15mag VS 7mag

all good man and id bet ur work is much better than mine. I learned in prison and have only have been in shop for a short time; however, im always trying new techniques to improve and spend alot of time on that forum.lol..give it a go no guarantee itll work for u but it does work for some. u should check out the rotary tattoo.com man all kinds of info, more than this forum by far, only professional artists are on it and share their techniques its great man and highly addictive..
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RE:Smooth shading 15mag VS 7mag

Kenny M. i agree with you fully when u say u use rotaries and do the no stretch with out even thinking about it. it becomes second nature depending on where ur working. sometimes there is no strecth, sometimes just a llittle stretch and like he said then a full stretch for full saturation. all with no give by the way sometimes its hard for me to get smmooth shade with an over 3.5mm stroke on tight skin areas so i do minimal strectch or that reverse stretch, I prefer the longer stroke because if need be i can saturate quickly but at the same time have to do little tricks to make it work for my blenda and b and g and softest shade. most machines i uses are in the 4mm range
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RE:Smooth shading 15mag VS 7mag

I know this is an old feed but I'm sure there are people who still have problems with this. 1 it could be your machine isn't hitting hard enough to sink the needles. Do you have a heavy armature bar?, What's is the tension on your rear spring? As for no stretch shading I didn't know people used a serious stretch when shading especially with a no give rotary. The curved mags and curved bugpin mags make for a more even penetration do to the skin depressing around the needles. They seem to really help my smooth color blends and transitions.
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RE:Smooth shading 15mag VS 7mag

You know this is really weird but when I used a 13 mag I was able to get a smooth shade better than I would with a 7 or 9 mag.

When I'm oil painting the brushes I use tend to be around the same size as a 13 mag or bigger for medium to large areas. So I'm used to using something that size but if i try to use a smaller brush to get a smooth blending it never works.
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