Mike DeVries  Discussion Board


pressure cooker vs autoclave?

Posted by victor from IP: 70.45.108.214 on 03/04/11

I have only ever had an electric autoclave (All American 25x) but I was thinking of trying, as per some suggestions, a regular pressure cooker. Aside from the obvious difference of the autoclave being electric and the pressure cooker being “manual,” are there any other qualities that set the two apart. Does one do a better job than the other at sterilizing or require more time? Or are they pretty much the same in that respect?



 
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RE:pressure cooker vs autoclave?

Posted by tommy from IP: 76.102.188.226 on 03/04/11

Holy moly man, put down the "gunz" and stop ruining people. You don't need a pressure cooker, you need an apprenticeship. Now go! Go forth and learn not to be a filthy scratch-master, you nincompoop you.


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RE:pressure cooker vs autoclave?

Posted by Helmet from IP: 76.120.15.26 on 03/04/11
Granby, CO

An autoclave operates at a higher pressure than a pressure cooker (about 15 p.s.i. for pressure cooker 25 p.s.i. plus for autoclave) That fact alone dictates that it would take much longer cycle times to achieve the same level of sterilization with a cooker. It has been proven that an autoclave kills microorganisms and pressure cookers; well, they cook. While it might be possible to achieve proper sterilization with a pressure cooker; failure could cost someone their life. I know two people personally who have nearly died from bad staph infections in the last couple years. They got them from having surgery in hospitals where instruments were probably sterilized properly but stored improperly i.e. unwrapped and left where they could be cross contaminated. P.S. Spore test that autoclave regularly.


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RE:pressure cooker vs autoclave?

Posted by superman from IP: 24.150.209.10 on 03/04/11
canada

To achieve steam-driven sterility you need to satisfy two requirements...time and temperature. In the medical, and lab/scientific field steam is the prevalent sterilant medium. This is due to the ability of steam to penetrate that which is being sterilized. At 20 psi [(g)auge (psig)] the temp is 250.3 degrees F.
In the course of sterilizing anything in a pressure cooker it is important to ensure that those items are placed above the water that is boiling. The goal is to expose the item to pure steam. If any or all of the items are immersed in the water then complete sterilization may not or will not occur. This is due to the fact that the item will be exposed to the temperature of the water not the steam. The pure steam will give off it's BTUs on contact with the item while water may not and will not do so as efficiently because water is an insulator as well as a medium for storing those BTUs. Even though the water is superheated due to the pressure (15-20 psi [(g)auge]) you would have to re-calculate and increase the exposure time to ensure the item has been sterilized. There also may be some air trapped in the cooker. Air is an insulator and no friend to sterilizing. Because most pressure cookers have the pressure gauge, not the vent, located at the highest point of the lid some air may remain near the top so. Do not place item in the uppermost region of the lid.
There is a technique for sterilizing in a pressure cooker and it is easy to do. A perforated or wire mesh, without handles, stainless steel deep frying/"Fry-o-lator"-type basket, of the appropriate size, placed open end down inside the p-cooker will act as the "shelf" for the item(s) providing the item(s) to be sterilized will fit in the pressure cooker with the basket. It must be tall enough to raise the item far enough above the anticipated water level to prevent being splashed by the boiling water surface. Choose a basket that has free swinging handles if possible so it can be used for par boiling things when not acting as a shelf. If free floating handles are not available just cut off the fixed handle and file the stubs smooth ("...cut to size, file to fit..."). A smaller perforated basket placed on top of the inverted one is handy for holding the items and convenient for handling that being sterilized but not necessary given the availability of space. Just be certain to use a perforated basket (or whatever) versus something solid such as a pan. Air will get trapped inside and, because the water is boiling, may get tipped over dropping the instrument (item) into the water.
hope that answers your question, but do yourself a favour, invest in your customers, use the best equipment, don't cut corners to save a buck. your clients deserve the very best. use an autoclave, why chance the saftey of your clients,

take care,

stephen stacey


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RE:pressure cooker vs autoclave?

Posted by Mike from IP: 62.20.148.76 on 03/04/11
Strömstad, Sweden

I recon it´s not only an apprenticeship that gives you proper knowlage about higiene and sterilization methods. From personal experience I can say that even thought a learned a lot from my mentor I didn´t really learn alot about this area. But from my dentist dad and from my erlier job as a nurse at a orthopedic clinic at the hospital I learned a hell of a lot more about crosscontamination, methods to keep cleaning and areas and instuments clean and so on. In this area their is a lot to be learned from other buissnesses becouse at least in sweden we as tattooartist are far behind here.

If you even consider a presure cooker you should drop this, and I must also say that an all american "autoclave" is also an electric presure cooker. What you need is a real autoclave with pre and post vacuum an proper cycles. What also is not mentioned here is that you should not only clave the goods, also clean and desinfect the goods. Theirfore a dish desinfector is a good thing, it not only help you cleans your goods it gives you a good start before packing and "claving".

Hope some is understood considering my bad english, but not only do you need costly machines, you need proper rutines to keep everything clean and in working order. Here I must say lists are the shit! From vaccumlist for the floor to crashtest and sporetesting of you autoclave. With thoose you can keep track on your rutines and that is a really good thing.

their is a ton of more things to say in this area so be sure what you do before even considering this as a thing for you.


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RE:pressure cooker vs autoclave?

Posted by Tor from IP: 67.248.20.152 on 08/09/11

first you scrub the steel with tube scrubbers and soap, and hot water, very well. Then they bathe in the ultrasonic shaker for 15+ minutes, then they get rinsed off really really well. Then they get individually wrapped in steralization pouches, and dated and your initials go there too. Becasue after PROPER claving, it still can expire.
REAL autoclave = 5k
REAL ultrasonic= 3-6 hundred
round to 6k, cause you need pouches, germacide mix, and spore testing at 100 per month, but better per week.
OR
use plastic sterile disposables, store and handle them with aseptic technique, and double bag and discard, or bio bag and send off. Sharps container etc.
I say plastic, more piece of mind for your patients (customers) and yourself.
I'm a nurse and surgical assistant of 7 years, and tattoo artist.
still a lousy typist though.


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RE:pressure cooker vs autoclave?

Posted by Joan Zuniga from IP: 174.61.46.221 on 08/09/11
Miami Fl

Wanna save time and money forget about all that shit they tell you and make you a big favor buy disposable tubes...lol


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RE:pressure cooker vs autoclave?

Posted by Joan Zuniga from IP: 174.61.46.221 on 08/09/11
Miami Fl

Chinese they are pretty cheap...OMG lol


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RE:pressure cooker vs autoclave?

Posted by Johnathan from IP: 68.186.70.112 on 08/16/11
Yakima, WA, USA

Also one huge difference in an autoclave and a pressure cooker is that the autoclave will remove all of the air out of the chamber before it begins to steam and a pressure cooker can't do that.


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RE:pressure cooker vs autoclave?

Posted by Will from IP: 66.193.156.162 on 11/02/12
Kamuela, Hawaii, USA

Does anyone know about converting and All-American Pressure Cooker into a Sterilizer? I called the Wisconsin Aluminum Foundry and they said that they were not interchangeable because the pressure gauge and steam release valve were different...but I could purchase a sterilizer lid that would fit on the pressure cooker body. This leads me to the question...is the pressure cooker lid and sterilizer lid the same piece and the only differences are the gauge and steam release valve? These parts are relatively cheap, the whole lid is not(not much less than a whole unit). I recall when I had one years ago I went into a shop that sold them...and the valve was changed rather easily. Never tried to replace the gauge however.


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RE:pressure cooker vs autoclave?

Posted by Lord Hordak from IP: 24.129.32.2 on 11/04/12
florida

pressure cookers are a pain...

and claves are easily purchased if you know where to look.

I bought a pelton and crane omniclave ocm pretty reasonable,
and I'm quite happy with it.

However if you dont know much about autoclaves....

remember they only do one thing...
You cant watch tv on it and it wont rub your back either.

If you end up going to pick one up
Bring some sterilization packages and a test strip
check the gauges and seals
look in the chamber really inspect it.
make sure all the trays and such are in good condition.

why waste your money on a cheap stove top wanna be clave
read up on decent claves
Pelton and Crane
Tuttnauer
Ritter
Midmark

And dont cheap out get the thing spore tested every 40 hours of use

leave the pressure cooker at your grandmothers house so she can cook potatoes at thanksgiving.


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RE:pressure cooker vs autoclave?

Posted by joshbafford@yahoo.com from IP: 98.94.22.239 on 11/10/12
North Augusta

is a spore test really required every forty hours of use. i say this because i use to work in a shop in a fairly ......how can i say it nicely...white trash part of the town i live in and we would have 4 artist including myself doing over a dozen of the cliche' tiny flash work tattoos that ppl would come in and say they gots 50 bucks what can they get. so we always had llloooaaadds of tubes to clean and sterilize we had 2 autoclaves set up in our clean room and both would run upwards of 3-4 hours a day but we only did spore tests once a month.....what should i be doing abt this

and ps to the person who said that their mentor didnt show them enough abt sterilization you should look into that bc the first 6 months of my apprenticeship was almost entirely me being the shop bitch boy taking care of literally all the cleaning and sterilization to the point where it has become something you dont even think abt its like a reflex


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RE:pressure cooker vs autoclave?

Posted by Anomoly from IP: 67.255.244.39 on 12/05/12

So, he should pay a bum like you who obviously isn't interested in passing knowledge but ridiculing instead 5k to clean your shitter? when you probably fucked up more peoples skin in a drug dazed coma or serving time in prison? Next time.. give meaningful advice or keep it to yourself...


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RE:pressure cooker vs autoclave?

Posted by DENIXXX from IP: 58.8.47.211 on 12/06/12
now in BANGKOK

HELLO AT ALL

the main difference between PRESSURE COOCKIE and AUTOCLAVE is the pressure create inside, the AUTOCLAVE create more pressure for the STERILIZING CYCLE, that have 2 different,

1 is with 121 degree for 15 min
2 is with 134 degree for 3 min

PRESSURE COOCKIE BASICLY GONNA KILL JUST SOME VERY SIMPLE BACTERY BUY THE OTHER ONE THEY GONNA MOLTIPLICATE WITH THE HOT INSIDE, KIND OF BACTERYA INCUBATION, THIS WHY NORMAL COOCKIE NOT STERILIZED BUT CREATE MORE BACTERYA

have 3 type of AUTOCLAVE BASICLY, classified by CLASS

CLASS B- BIG, are the most modern AUTOCLAVE, same featured of the big one used on HOSPITAL, in EUROPE we have a law that u need used this AUTOCLAVE for tattoo, they cannot used ALL MAERICAN or staff like that
this is the ONLY AUTOCLAVE THAT REALY STERILIZED, U CAN STERILIZED MANY DIFFERENT MATERIAL, ALSO POROUS, CAVE INSIDE, PACKED OR UNPACKED PRODUCTS
I THINK UNTILL YEAR 2000 NOT EXIST THIS AUTOCLAVE FOR SMALL SHOP, ONLY HAVE ON HOSPITAL

CLASS N- NAKED, can only sterilized product UNPACKED ( THIS WHY IS CALLED NAKED CLASS), STEEL ONLY AND NOT CAVE INSIDE,
most of the AUTOCLAVE u guys used on USA or other country that not is in EUROPEAN COMUNITY are CLASS N,
THIS AUTOCLAVE DON REALY STERILIZED CORRECT, BECOUSE U CANNOT STERILIZED:
-PACKED GRIP
-NYLON OR DELRIN OR SILICON GRIP, SAME RED RAT
-GRIP ALSO ARE CAVE INSIDE, AND CLASS N CANNOT STERILIZED CORRECT CAVE ITEMS

CLASS S- SPECIAL, IS AUTOCLAVE THAT STERILIZED 1 DIFFERENT STYLE OF PRODUCTS, SPECIFIED FROM THE FACTORY BUILD, SO CAN STERILIZED:
-OR PACKED ITEMS
-OR CAVE ITEMS
-OR DIFFERENT MATERIAL ITEMS THAT ARE NOT STEEL
THIS AUTOCLAVE IS NOT VERY COMMON

BASICLY THAT U DON HAVE AUTOCLAVE CLASS B, U NOT REALY STERILIZED CORRECT THE TATTOO GRIP

NOT SCARED PEOPLE, THIS IS THE TEORY OF THE STERILIZATION, A NORMAL AUTOCLAVE STILL A GOOD WAY TO PROTECT OURSELF AND CUSTOMERS
IN EUROPE HAVE VERY RESTRICTED RULES ABOUT HIGIENE DEPARTEMENT, BECOUSE ON EUROPE THE HOSPITAL IS FREE FROM GOVERMNET, U DON NEED HAVE PRIVATE INSURANCE SAME USA OR OTHER COUNTRY, SO THEY TRY TO PROTECT MORE AND MORE THE NORMAL PEOPLE BECOUSE WHEN PEOPLE GET SICK IS A BIG COST FOR THE GOVERMENT

AFTER THIS WE NEED THINK ABOUT, WE USED NEEDLES AND GRIP STERILIZED, BUY WE USE GLOVES, PAPER TOWEL, INKS CUP THAT ARE NOT STERILIZED, I MEAN WE CANNOT 100% PERFECT

SORRY MY ENGLISH IS NOT GOOD, HOPE U UNDERSTAND WHAT I WANNA EXPLAIN

I CURRENTLY DONE TATTOOS IN THAILAND NOW, HERE ALMOST NOBODY HAVE AUTOCLAVE IN SHOP, VERY BAD HIGIENIC CONDITIONS, DON EXIST, HEALTH DEPARTMENT, LICENCE FOR TATTOO SHOP AND LAW REGULATED THIS, U CAN START DONE TATTOOS ALMOST IN THE STREET AND IS OK, NOBODY SAY NOTHING
IS CRAZY HERE MAN, U NEED COME AND CECK BY YOURSELF, LOT OF STUPID TURISTS COME AND GET CHEEP TATTOO IN TERRIBLE SHOP, SOME SHOP IS OPEN DIRECT TO THE STREET WHERE HAVE CAR TRAFFIC....HA HA HA.....

ON THE SHOP I WORK WE HAVE AUTOCLAVE ,ULTRASONIC AND WE DONE ALL CORRECT BECOUSE IM THERE TOO, BUT MOST OF THE SHOP ARE INCREDIBLE, AND THE PEOPLE HERE DON CARE NOTHING...VERY BAD THIS FOR THE TATTOO WORLD

GREETS AT ALL....


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RE:pressure cooker vs autoclave?

Posted by DENIXXX from IP: 58.8.47.211 on 12/06/12
now in BANGKOK

HELLO AT ALL

the main difference between PRESSURE COOCKIE and AUTOCLAVE is the pressure create inside, the AUTOCLAVE create more pressure for the STERILIZING CYCLE, that have 2 different,

1 is with 121 degree for 15 min
2 is with 134 degree for 3 min

PRESSURE COOCKIE BASICLY GONNA KILL JUST SOME VERY SIMPLE BACTERY BUY THE OTHER ONE THEY GONNA MOLTIPLICATE WITH THE HOT INSIDE, KIND OF BACTERYA INCUBATION, THIS WHY NORMAL COOCKIE NOT STERILIZED BUT CREATE MORE BACTERYA

have 3 type of AUTOCLAVE BASICLY, classified by CLASS

CLASS B- BIG, are the most modern AUTOCLAVE, same featured of the big one used on HOSPITAL, in EUROPE we have a law that u need used this AUTOCLAVE for tattoo, they cannot used ALL MAERICAN or staff like that
this is the ONLY AUTOCLAVE THAT REALY STERILIZED, U CAN STERILIZED MANY DIFFERENT MATERIAL, ALSO POROUS, CAVE INSIDE, PACKED OR UNPACKED PRODUCTS
I THINK UNTILL YEAR 2000 NOT EXIST THIS AUTOCLAVE FOR SMALL SHOP, ONLY HAVE ON HOSPITAL

CLASS N- NAKED, can only sterilized product UNPACKED ( THIS WHY IS CALLED NAKED CLASS), STEEL ONLY AND NOT CAVE INSIDE,
most of the AUTOCLAVE u guys used on USA or other country that not is in EUROPEAN COMUNITY are CLASS N,
THIS AUTOCLAVE DON REALY STERILIZED CORRECT, BECOUSE U CANNOT STERILIZED:
-PACKED GRIP
-NYLON OR DELRIN OR SILICON GRIP, SAME RED RAT
-GRIP ALSO ARE CAVE INSIDE, AND CLASS N CANNOT STERILIZED CORRECT CAVE ITEMS

CLASS S- SPECIAL, IS AUTOCLAVE THAT STERILIZED 1 DIFFERENT STYLE OF PRODUCTS, SPECIFIED FROM THE FACTORY BUILD, SO CAN STERILIZED:
-OR PACKED ITEMS
-OR CAVE ITEMS
-OR DIFFERENT MATERIAL ITEMS THAT ARE NOT STEEL
THIS AUTOCLAVE IS NOT VERY COMMON

BASICLY THAT U DON HAVE AUTOCLAVE CLASS B, U NOT REALY STERILIZED CORRECT THE TATTOO GRIP

NOT SCARED PEOPLE, THIS IS THE TEORY OF THE STERILIZATION, A NORMAL AUTOCLAVE STILL A GOOD WAY TO PROTECT OURSELF AND CUSTOMERS
IN EUROPE HAVE VERY RESTRICTED RULES ABOUT HIGIENE DEPARTEMENT, BECOUSE ON EUROPE THE HOSPITAL IS FREE FROM GOVERMNET, U DON NEED HAVE PRIVATE INSURANCE SAME USA OR OTHER COUNTRY, SO THEY TRY TO PROTECT MORE AND MORE THE NORMAL PEOPLE BECOUSE WHEN PEOPLE GET SICK IS A BIG COST FOR THE GOVERMENT

AFTER THIS WE NEED THINK ABOUT, WE USED NEEDLES AND GRIP STERILIZED, BUY WE USE GLOVES, PAPER TOWEL, INKS CUP THAT ARE NOT STERILIZED, I MEAN WE CANNOT 100% PERFECT

SORRY MY ENGLISH IS NOT GOOD, HOPE U UNDERSTAND WHAT I WANNA EXPLAIN

I CURRENTLY DONE TATTOOS IN THAILAND NOW, HERE ALMOST NOBODY HAVE AUTOCLAVE IN SHOP, VERY BAD HIGIENIC CONDITIONS, DON EXIST, HEALTH DEPARTMENT, LICENCE FOR TATTOO SHOP AND LAW REGULATED THIS, U CAN START DONE TATTOOS ALMOST IN THE STREET AND IS OK, NOBODY SAY NOTHING
IS CRAZY HERE MAN, U NEED COME AND CECK BY YOURSELF, LOT OF STUPID TURISTS COME AND GET CHEEP TATTOO IN TERRIBLE SHOP, SOME SHOP IS OPEN DIRECT TO THE STREET WHERE HAVE CAR TRAFFIC....HA HA HA.....

ON THE SHOP I WORK WE HAVE AUTOCLAVE ,ULTRASONIC AND WE DONE ALL CORRECT BECOUSE IM THERE TOO, BUT MOST OF THE SHOP ARE INCREDIBLE, AND THE PEOPLE HERE DON CARE NOTHING...VERY BAD THIS FOR THE TATTOO WORLD

GREETS AT ALL....


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RE:pressure cooker vs autoclave?

Posted by BaySide1 from IP: 71.126.60.238 on 05/14/13
Mass.

I have twenty years experience in the Sales and Repair of Autoclaves. There is a lot of mis information in this thread.

First and foremost, the only way to properly autoclave/sterilize any instrument is by following the manufacture's instructions for that item. Then, you need a properly working autoclave. Before any of this happens you need to have a well thought out aseptic plan for your facility. Everyone needs to be on the same page and follow the guidelines set-forth in your shop's policy.


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RE:pressure cooker vs autoclave?

Posted by mikew from IP: 74.79.67.61 on 04/14/14
syracuse,ny USA

If you have a license you would know why what you said is just rediculous. With that bwing said i understand wherw your at but there are places where you can buy a small autoclave for $116.00 plus shipping which is rigt around $20.00. So please please make this purchase it is well worth it and atleast if your just going to go tattoo and not get an apprenticeship go and get a license through your local hwalth department because you would not be on here asking any of these questions for a 2 year certification to tattoo or tattoo license it is 160.00 and they have a book online for free you study from to take the exam in order to obtain that license and all it is about is exactly what you need to know about tattoo equipment sterilization so please stop being cheap spend the 300.00 ob this so people are walking around with all types of diseases because of you im sure the price and test may vary a little state to state but not much the 300.00 covers the test the class and the 2 year license and also the autoclave to clean your equipment so go get it and stop you shouldnt even be here i dont understand why people like you even bother sh¡t is crazy giving people diseases messig their bodies up permanantly like dude stop being cheap grow up dont be a scratcher period i hate people who cant even draw a flower trying to tattoo they think o all you gotta do is copy a stencil with a needle how hard can it be your retarted if you think that and a discrace to art period.


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