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rotarys vs coils

today i give another try to rotarys,i work with the neo tat,and the bizarre 2
i must say that rotarys is mutch less eficient than coils,rotarys dont have punch,i make mutch more skin trauma with rotarys than with coils,rotarys drag to mutch,my advice is let the rotarys and let the coils be


Replies:

RE:rotarys vs coils

...... Really?
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RE:rotarys vs coils

I guess they are not for everyone? I love my rotary machines. I haven't used a coiled machine in over a year and don't plan to. I can make a bizarre v2 hit harder than any coil I ever owned and much more consistently. Again to each their own just feel your info was not an accurate description of rotary machines


Justin
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RE:rotarys vs coils

ah ah ,is ilusion my friend.none rotary in the world hit hard as a coil
is a ilusion feeling
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RE:rotarys vs coils

Also I notice much less trauma to the skin (though used wrong like any machine they can tear up the skin), quicker lighter heal times, and also that I can do a piece about 20-30% faster with a rotary. Perhaps it is a lack of experience with rotary machines? What you describe is the exact opposite of how I would describe using rotary machines.

Justin

As far as the ability to make them hit hard. My bizarre's hit as hard as I would ever need a machine to.. I am not anti coiled machines I just prefer rotaries.
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RE:rotarys vs coils

" My bizarre's hit as hard as I would ever need a machine to.. "
this can be true for you,but doesnt mean that you know what you need
without ofense,my friend
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RE:rotarys vs coils

.

Hey folks,


Perhaps I can shed some light on your debate, I believe guy Aitchison once said, "nothing beats a perfectly tuned coil machine". and when it comes to creating the desired effects of all types of tattoos, he is probably right. however the debate you guys are having is a matter of physics.. The advantage of a rotary is, it is great for the those who just want to Tattoo and the only setting up it needs is needle depth and voltage, the disadvantage is that they have the potential to dig the skin, you get little or no feedback from the machine, for example if you are using a coil machine, when you hit tough skin the machine will bog down and give you some feedback as to how it is reacting with the skin.. however with a rotary it will keep on digging and digging with very little or no feedback. Using the feedback of coils and the bogging down response to each set up and skin type you are able to set your power supply to any machine to achieve the desired results you are looking for.. unlike a rotary you have to have a lot of experience and knowledge to "see how your rotary is behaving, for the less experience user, they are required to look up the manufactures specifications and calculate the stitch to power ratio in order to have the guide lines needed to do your tattoo. you will notice a lot of questions on this forum are people asking "what voltage are you using for that particular machine" Both machines have there advantages and disadvantages, but you need enough experience to determine which is best for you...if you have enough experience you can make any machine (of good quality) work for you. in some cases you will feel better adjusting the machine to get your desired effect, in other cases you will need to adjust your technique and hand motion. but as for which machine will hit harder, it depends on your settings, you can put the voltage high enough on a coil to penetrate anything that is weaker than the hardness of the needles, as well as the rotary, if the rotary has no give it too will penetrate anything limited to the hardness of the steel of the needles, the only thing that will change that is the power of the motor, a rotary will always complete its full revolution until there is enough resistance to "stop the motor" other wise unless there is enough resistance to stop the motor or break the needles the rotary will hit just as hard as any coil machine, and vise versa with the coil machine, its limitation fall in the strength of the coil and the magnetic field strength, it too has its limitations, so long as the resistance it less that the strength of the set up, it too will complete its cycle...

hope that helps,, take care


Stephen Stacey
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RE:rotarys vs coils

Superman once again goes above and beyond on his post. Gotta love it. I was not saying coils suck I truly love coils. However for me I prefer to use rotary machines myself. I would never knock on coil machines. I used them for a long time before I switched. I believe everyone should learn with coils for the very reasons you give. I was just saying I disagree with his analysis of the bizarre v2 and other rotary machines. I say if it works use it if not then don't simple as that.

Justin
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RE:rotarys vs coils

Yeah, agreed. Superman definitely knows his shit!
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RE:rotarys vs coils

people who tattoo normaly start using coils and use a few of them in the beginning . then they try 1 rotary and cant handle it so they label them all the same ......

new machines take time to get use to .if they were really that bad nobody would use them but if you look around in any convention the ratio is normaly 50 50

i use a coils for japanese linework but a rotary for portrais and percision .

my point is u dont have to use just roatarys or just coils . each machine will have a diffrent use for you specificaly . your setup will be be the same as nobdoy else in the world .so find what works what doesnt work and grow as an artist

Only through experimentation, can we truly know anything - da vinci
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RE:rotarys vs coils

complete a cycle doesn mean nothing,rotary complete a cycle but you need to know what deep the cycle sould go.
power in rotary is elusion,a rotary have half of the power of a coil machine,rotary lost the momenthu,momenthu is the real power
rotary is good for some kind of work like mike ,nikko,and many tattooist in the portrait photo style
to tattoo like aaron cain,marcus pacheco,guy and many other´s its impossible with rotarys
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RE:rotarys vs coils

.

Brian,


Unfortunately you lack the knowledge needed to discuss this further, I'm sorry that I am unable to give you the answer you are looking for. I try to help the best I can by being thorough with my post, but at this point I'm just beating a dead horse. good luck with your endeavors...

take care.


Stephen Stacey
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RE:rotarys vs coils

thank you for you try to help
its impossibe to show to you by words,but you can sure that rotarys isnt good as coils
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RE:rotarys vs coils

well jason.... sorry i mean brian.....

'but you can sure that rotarys isnt good as coils'

thats just YOUR opinion , which you are entitled to .like when some people used to think the world was flat ....

dont like em , dont use em , they do take a certain ammount of skill i suppose not everybody can use the properly
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RE:rotarys vs coils

.


Oh snap!

Is this captain dunsel? how you been bro. LOL! haven't seen you here in a while we all thought you started your own forum, I posted a comment that you can relate to about the 4 types of people that make comments on these forums, I think you fell into category 2. glad to see your back man. we were getting frustrated trying to figure out all this tattoo stuff on our own. please help us out bro, we need your spine tingling wisdom.


Stephen Stacey
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RE:rotarys vs coils

is dificult to explain to people that dont understand about tattoo process
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RE:rotarys vs coils

different machines for different means,Switching to rotaries takes awhile to adjust to,my daudhter loves,I like coils but who cares,its personal preference,they nice and peacefull anyway.
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RE:rotarys vs coils

i agree .

i just think its better to be able to use them than not . im still keen on my flys tho . i like being able to swtich the motors / stroke lenght quick and easy . but i think the bv2 has the best overall give system and is nice and light .

at least then you have more tools at your disposal

mike , david corden , joe capo . franco vescovi . ect ect ect all use rotarys aswell as coils . try telling them - '
is dificult to explain to people that dont understand about tattoo process '

im sick of your bullshit now jason ,,,,brian or whatever your calling yourself. i mean your posting under a fake name , even your ashamed of youself :)

so from now on if i see your cock nose opinions im just gonna keep posting the same thing about you . i have read enough of your posts now to realise you unworthy of my time or anybody elses . your are the worst thing about this forum . come back when you have grown up and learnt how to tattoo
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RE:rotarys vs coils

some of those guys u named arent anywhere near top dogs anymore as far as work being put out. look at dmitriy samohins work to name just one. all rotary .
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RE:rotarys vs coils

I am 100% a coil man myself. I've used rotaries a few times and done 1 complete tattoo but I didn't like it. I have absolutely nothing negative to say about them though. If a certain tool helps you do a better tattoo use it. Like Superman said, I just like the feedback of the coil. I get more of a natural paintbrush feel when using mags specifically.

Anyway, I've had the opportunity to listen to some older artists talk on this topic and the most valid compliant they have (in my opinion) is that from the very first rotation the rotary machine will never run the same. It being a motor it is constantly getting weaker and burning out. Something like that. I was just wanted to hear your guys opinions on that or input on if that's even true. Thanks
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RE:rotarys vs coils

i personally think, your last thoughts about wearing out electric motors isn`t exactly the most significant backdraw of a rotary- simply because a coil machine also has parts that f... up from heavy use. just think about breaaking springs in the middle of a tattoo...

what brings me to dislike rotaries is more founded on the general technical basics of both:
while you can control the coil machine`s "behaviour" of the needle in lots of ways, so that literally everyone out there with a certain amount of material knowledge will definitely find a way that the tool runs satisfying for his/her personal way to work with it, the only thing you can adjust at a rotary is the speed and that`s it.

when you take a look on the plain driving movement of a rotary, there is another thing that annoys me:
the movement of a motor works in a complete circle cycle, no matter how you transfer the circular motion into a straight up and down motion, there will always be different amounts of speed in the motion. take a simple look at a common gasoline motor . lets start at 12 o`clock view, that means the pivot is completely up at ther top. now it takes up speed until 3 o`clock and slows down to a complete stop at 6 o`clock, because then it has what we call over here in germany "the lower dead point", then takes up speed again till 9 and reaches " the upper dead point" at 12. and this kind of motion is exactly the same with all piston transferred excentric pivot based motion. so in the case of a rotary: it slows down exactly before it hits the skin, the touches the skin with literally nearly zero power (just the rest power of the little skin-under the skin-motion way), comes top a completely stop (not in form of a peak but a wave, if you like to see it as a diagram), to take speed up again on its way back.

and that is exactly what makes me afraid: it stays in the skin with little to nearly no motion. you need to be very experienced in tat subject just to stay aware, that you can`t move it like a coil machine- otherwise you have no choice at all to avoid ripped up skin. so a rotary can be something like a good tool in the hands of a person, who completely understands all that stuff mentioned above and is able to transfer it to his way of tattooing. in the hands of a complete newbie its a mean weapon and will always cause damage.

with a coil machine i don`t have that problems:
it will exactly get its most power on the needle close to the coils, where the magnetism is at its strongest point and i have nearly millions of small tricks handy to have influence at nearly every stage of the whole mechanical process, that means how long there is contact to the upper point contact screw, how strong each spring, how heavy the a-bar, the voltage and so on and on...

i was plainly horrified, when i gave a rotary my first try and discarded it in favour of my coil tools even in the middle of the tattoo, simply because i had absolutely no feedback and a very very bad feeling using a tool, i have nearly no influence on besides the speed.

never again.

but i think everyone should use the tools he/she likes- i on my behalf will stick to my good old coilies like superglue.
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